Curse

distilledwill · Apr 30, 2009, 02:14 PM // 14:14

[Dodge] means you can't attack, I find one of the most useful survival strategies against melee involves: hit [[natural stride] and run a few steps > [[melandru's shot] as they walk towards you > continue to [[natural stride] away. (this also means you avoid any ranged snares.)

Natural Stride wouldnt be used by almost every good ranger in PvP if it wasnt worth a slot. A close second is [[Lightning Reflexes] if movement isnt prioritised, but on a split ranger in GvG, any pvp environment that involves a lot of moving around (AB, CM, HB) its definately worth the slot.

Orange Milk · Apr 30, 2009, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat
The point of NS is you get blocking and IMS in one skill slot, with better uptime than something like dodge. And if you have monks nearby you hardly need the blocking part, except to buy that extra second for monks to react.

I think I already said It was used because of the low recharge. I also said it's not used for the block, it's used for the Increase in Movement Speed.

And since you don't need the block or get to use the block since anyone in the right mind spikes the Ranger by calling "Spike *The Ranger* with Defile in 3 -2 -1" IF the defile is early then the Ranger takes the Defile damage, if it's late then Nat Stride is removed.

[Dash] is a much better skill for the situation, however since [Mending Touch] is a reather strong staple on most any ranger bar you/we/us are forced to use Nat Stride, not because it's good, because it's not, but because it's an alternative with a Increase in Movement Speed.

Sure Dodge is gone if you attack, my point is that Nat Stride is NOT a battle stance, use it to run away, and [Dodge] is a better skill for that due to the fact it's not easy to remove.

Bobby2 · Apr 30, 2009, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Milk

[Dash] is a much better skill for the situation, however since [Mending Touch] is a reather strong staple on most any ranger bar you/we/us are forced to use Nat Stride, not because it's good, because it's not, but because it's an alternative with a Increase in Movement Speed.

It's not like you don't have decent alternatives.

Saraneth · Apr 30, 2009, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Gogo [[Restful Breeze]. It's not as flexible as [[Troll Unguent], but it stands less likely to be interupted.

gw_poster · Apr 30, 2009, 11:11 PM // 23:11

[restful breeze] is a bad choice imo for a multitude of reasons..first because you have to spec to healing so thats a four attribute spread assuming you keep [mending touch] on the bar, second because you can't attack or use a skill. The ability to use a skill while regening from [troll unguent] (for which you've spec'ed into high enough to get a good duration on [apply poison]) is key while engaged in battle...if someone is camping you enough to see you using a self-heal, [restful breeze] will be interrupted just as often as [troll unguent] despite the 2-sec difference in casting time...but w/e if it works for you then go with it

Saraneth · Apr 30, 2009, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by gw_poster

you have to spec to healing

You don't have to spec into healing to get the +10 regen on [[Restful Breeze].

Quote:

Originally Posted by gw_poster

...spec'ed into high enough to get a good duration on [Apply Poison]

The OP hasn't posted his or her actual build, so it's incorrect to assume that me or the OP use [[Apply Poison].

Quote:

Originally Posted by gw_poster

if someone is camping you enough to see you using a self-heal

If someone were to camp you, then you would either feign or avoid using either heal. [[Restful Breeze] is less likely than [[Troll Unguent] to be interupted because of its 1 sec cast, which affords less time for the enemy to switch targets and interupt your actions.

gw_poster · May 01, 2009, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraneth

You don't have to spec into healing to get the +10 regen on [[Restful Breeze]

but to get get anything more than 8 sec of +10 regen you do, whereas [troll unguent] even at 4 WS will give you almost as much hp and last almost twice as long (13s*5hp) - and the point I wanted to stress most re: troll - it won't be removed when you attack or use another skill, like [restful breeze] will - which interestingly enough was the only point of my previous post you did not refute. You're right, I shouldn't have assumed the OP's bar, but mid-point in the thread the discussion turned to JQ for which most rangers run the meta (melshot)

Saraneth · May 01, 2009, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by gw_poster

[Troll Unguent] even at 4 WS will give you almost as much hp and last almost twice as long

At 0 spec, [[Restful Breeze] lasts 8 secs and grants +10 regen. (80hp)
At 4 spec, [[Restful Breeze] lasts 11 secs and grants +10 regen. (110hp)
At 4 spec, [[Troll Unguent] lasts 13 secs and grants +5 regen. (65hp)

Any relative amount of points spent in [[Restful Breeze] would be more beneficial than an equal amount placed in [[Troll Unguent].

Quote:

Originally Posted by gw_poster

troll - it won't be removed when you attack or use another skill, like [Restful Breeze] will - which interestingly enough was the only point of my previous post you did not refute.

I didn't "refute" it because it was a mere restatement of my original post, which mentioned [[Restful Breeze]'s inflexibility.

turbo234 · May 01, 2009, 02:41 AM // 02:41

we're not forced to take NS because we have no other choice. we take it because of how we can use it. even if dash was a ranger skill i would still take NS over it simply because it has the blocking which can help in the middle of a fight(ex. using troll ungent or res sig etc) and the ims to chase or kite people.
the reason you don't see people using dodge/zojun's haste is because of the long recharge. if the duration and recharge were more in line with NS, then yeah i probably would use it more then.

**Marty Silverblade** · May 01, 2009, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraneth

At 0 spec, [[Restful Breeze] lasts 8 secs and grants +10 regen. (80hp)
At 4 spec, [[Restful Breeze] lasts 11 secs and grants +10 regen. (110hp)
At 4 spec, [[Troll Unguent] lasts 13 secs and grants +5 regen. (65hp)

Actually, correct figures would be:

At 0 spec, [[Restful Breeze] lasts 8 secs and grants +10 regen. (160hp)
At 4 spec, [[Restful Breeze] lasts 11 secs and grants +10 regen. (220hp)
At 4 spec, [[Troll Unguent] lasts 13 secs and grants +5 regen. (130hp)

Each pip of health regen is worth 2 health per second.

Saraneth · May 01, 2009, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Each pip of health regen is worth 2 health per second.

Ah, forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder.

gw_poster · May 04, 2009, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraneth

At 0 spec, [[Restful Breeze] lasts 8 secs and grants +10 regen. (80hp)
At 4 spec, [[Restful Breeze] lasts 11 secs and grants +10 regen. (110hp)
At 4 spec, [[Troll Unguent] lasts 13 secs and grants +5 regen. (65hp)

Any relative amount of points spent in [[Restful Breeze] would be more beneficial than an equal amount placed in [[Troll Unguent].

I didn't "refute" it because it was a mere restatement of my original post, which mentioned [[Restful Breeze]'s inflexibility.

be that as it may, but why even bother with [restful breeze]? as a r/mo you wouldn't spec into two monk att's anyway - unless you're saying you wouldn't bring [mending touch] or not use [apply poison] (for the WS and free [Troll Unguent] att pts), in which case = fail in JQ/FA - which is what I thought the OP was asking about.

Eradras · May 07, 2009, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

I think I already said It was used because of the low recharge. I also said it's not used for the block, it's used for the Increase in Movement Speed.

NS not used for the block?... duuuuude.
I can't even remember how many assassins' combos I've screwed with NS, or how many times I've avoided that Wounding Strike from your average hostile Dervish, or how many times I've blocked that silly Backbreaker/DevStrike/BullStrike/etc. KD, or the fatal Mel's Shot/BA/etc... if I only wanted the IMS, I'd go for Dash, otherwise, NS gives far more utility. Which is what rangers are all about. NS is the mother of all ranger stances. (in PvP atleast), if you need the extra time from Lightning Reflexes or Whirling Defense, you're doing it wrong.

Quote:

[natural stride]+[mending touch]+[troll unguent]..if you die with that your doing it wrong.

^ this

Also, to whomsoever said that Dodge beasts NS... sure, maybe for the running part. But it gets canceled if you attack AND it only blocks projectile attacks meaning the Warrior behind you who's about to use Bull's Strike is a very happy warrior indeed.